Jason Knight  0:00  
Hello, and welcome to the show. I'm your host, Jason Knight. And on each episode of this podcast, I'll be sharing inspiring conversations with passionate people. Now, when it comes to inspiration, sometimes we will need a little bit of help. If you follow me on Twitter, you'll know I'm a passionate advocate for mentorship. In the first quarter of this year, I've mentored 76 different people, but I've realised that I just don't scale. Because of this, I've teamed up with a buddy to help more mentors and mentees find each other. So if you want to find out more, check out https://oneknightinproduct.com/mentor, where you can sign up to be a mentor, mentee, or both. That's https://oneknightinproduct.com/mentor. On tonight's episode, we talk about founding a company with the ultimate hippo No, not the highest paid person's opinion but the highest paid parents. We talk about scaling a company through community engagement, getting into that community in the first place and how to maintain credibility when you get your triumph and takes it and not being seen as a sellout. We also consider what comes next when it's time to do it all over again with a different product for a different market with a totally different community. For all this and much more please join us on One Knight in Product.

Jason Knight  1:14  
So my guest tonight is Anna Maste. Anna's a former telephone survey administrator, so the sort of person that was terrified me and my first job, but luckily like me, she escaped the bullpen and moved into tech and building products. And as a software developer and veteran community theatre performer, she's taken that passion for community in a different direction, building successful startup with a mum, scaling it via community engagement gloriously exiting. Now back for repeat performance. Hi, Anna, how are you tonight?

Anna Maste  1:38  
I'm great. Jason, thanks so much for having me.

Jason Knight  1:41  
No problem. It's good to have you here. So normally, I would start in the present day and start asking you all about the stuff that you're working on these days. And I'm definitely gonna ask you about that. But your story has a beginning. And I think that beginning is interesting. So let's start with that beginning. And you are the co founder of Boondockers Welcome, you founded that back in 2012 with your mum, but before we even talk about that, and excuse me for being a useless Brit... what's a Boondocker?

Anna Maste  2:06  
So the boondocks would mean sort of the back country the you know, where you're, you have no electric hookups, no water, so a Boondocker is an RV or so, in Britain, you might call them a camper van or... 

Jason Knight  2:21  
A mobile home or something?

Anna Maste  2:22  
That's right. So an RVer who camps without any hookups, that's what a boondocker would be.

Jason Knight  2:28  
What problem then did Boondockers Welcome solve for those aforementioned boondockers in their RVs, or their camper vans with no power out in the boondocks?

Anna Maste  2:38  
So, RVers are plentiful and more plentiful and more plentiful. These days and camp sites are fewer and fewer between and as the RV numbers start to greatly surpass the number of campsites available, alternatives to camping in campgrounds became more and more desirable. And it turns out that lots of people don't even really enjoy camping in campgrounds. Most RV campgrounds if you've ever been in one are more akin to a parking lot than to nature. So my co founder is my mother and she had been RVing for quite some time and had been exclusively really RVing in the boondocks. And like actual free public land, especially in the southern United States. There's a lot of Bureau of Land Management land and public forests that you can camp for for free. So she had made a bit of a living for herself finding these free campsites, and boondockers welcome sort of was an extension of that, that connected our viewers with other like minded our viewers who had private property to offer to our viewers to spend the night on.

Jason Knight  3:47  
So that kind of sounds a little bit like a kind of Airbnb for RV people... AirBandR... don't know if that works, but something along those lines, is that kind of the deal? Like you've kind of got a marketplace where people are listing stuff and people are going to go there and search for things that meet their criteria. Is it literally that or is it something a little bit more honed for that boondock RV experience?

Anna Maste  4:11  
It's definitely in that same vein, although Boondockers Welcome works more on what we call the couchsurfing model rather than the Airbnb model, rather than our hosts actually renting out the space for our viewers to come and park for a night or two. Our hosts are usually our viewers themselves and are actually allowing other appears to come and park for free more for the social enjoyment of that than for any sort of financial gain.

Jason Knight  4:40  
So then are those host RVers still there too? And they kind of meet up and have a party or can you get two RV's on the same bit of land? I guess they probably got quite big land down there. But is that the deal? I meet up for a party?

Anna Maste  4:52  
Yes, more times than not. Yeah, almost almost exclusively the host is home and you know is is there to welcome an RV or And most of the hosts own, you know, enough land to park their own RV. And another one some of them though are in sort of more urban areas you can come Park in my you know, rather small driveway, urban Southern Ontario and Canada, but you have to have a pretty small RV in my driveway. But yeah, most of the hosts are either our viewers or former our viewers, lots of times people will have, you know, retired from their days on the road, but really enjoyed that the social aspect and sort of want to stay connected with the RV community and, and they have space to welcome other our viewers and our viewers are really easy host guests in that they don't come in your house, they bring their own house.

Jason Knight  5:41  
But that's really interesting, because it seems that alongside sort of Airbnb and that kind of marketplace model, it's also got a whiff of dating site about it if you've got to actually like the people that you're meeting up with, and making sure not that they just got a nice bit of land to park on. But also, they're the kind of people that you want to tip a beer with, right?

Anna Maste  5:57  
It's true. And I mean, some of our guests and hosts will be more social than others. And sometimes you know, it very much will vary depending on the both sides of that equation. But sometimes you're just showing up and crashing for the night with the expectation that you have to take off in the next morning. But sometimes there's a whole lot of social interaction. And we've had hosts to you know, take every single guest square dancing or who you know, invite them all to come and swim in their pond and enjoy their property. And they really enjoy showing off their property. So there's a really wide range.

Jason Knight  6:29  
There you go. There's definitely a movie coming out of this at some point, I'm assuming. But you are a software developer by trade originally, and you said that you started working at a startup, you obviously then got bored of doing that and started a start up yourself with your mom, as you said. So I guess the question is, as a developer, you know, building out your technical skills, relatively early in your long term career like you've started boondockers, welcome a while back now. So you decided to switch up and not just switch up and start a business but start a business, as we said with your mom. So I guess the question is, or the two questions are, why did you do that? And why did you do it with your mom?

Anna Maste  7:06  
So I am a software developer by trade. I was an embedded software developer working for a startup that manufactured Internet Service Provider hardware equipment. The genesis of the idea was essentially I was on maternity leave here in Canada, we have 12 months of maternity leave, we're very lucky that way. And my mother was over visiting her new grandson and sort of had floated this idea, something that she was considering starting, although she at the time was thinking about trying to outsource the the software development. And I suggested that, you know, it might be an expensive proposition and why didn't I try to develop it for us? And essentially, that was we decided to go 50/50 from there and started building?

Jason Knight  7:52  
But they say that you can choose your friends, but you can't choose your family. So I have to ask, is it easy or hard running a business with your mom, because that feels like the ultimate Mom Test, Right?

Anna Maste  8:03  
Very different kind of Mom Test than the book test. It is definitely has its challenges. I think, for us, you know, my mother and I were quite close. And we're able to be quite frank with each other. So that was a plus. And there is something to be said for sort of knowing that, in our case that that relationship was pretty rock solid. And there was no real disagreement that was going to going to destroy that relationship, which, you know, in a more arm's length co founder situation, I don't know that you'd necessarily have that degree of comfort. So I think there was a lot of benefits from that. But I mean, there's also drawbacks to I'm sure that, you know, her idiosyncrasies probably grated on my nerves more so than a stranger would, because I've been bugging me for you know, 45 years. So it's definitely a double edged sword.

Jason Knight  8:57  
Must be tricky working with a business partner who can literally send you to your room, if she disagrees with you.

Anna Maste  9:03  
I think she's lost that power quite some time ago.

Jason Knight  9:06  
Oh, that runs out? Don't tell my kids. But did either of you have business experience before that? I mean, obviously, you're working yourself in businesses, and I don't know what your mom's background was before she started doing this with you. But like, Did either of you have experience running a business or anything along those lines? Or did you kind of have to learn that on the job as you were making this fantastic idea into reality?

Anna Maste  9:29  
So my mom did have a considerable amount of experience running businesses but more sort of bricks and mortar. She and my father You know, they split up when I was quite young, but prior to that they ran a bar and you know, restaurant...

Jason Knight  9:44  
There you go,  that's the party sorted as well. 

Anna Maste  9:46  
Yeah, yes, my joke is that the smell of stale beer is the smell of my childhood. But the she she had that experience and then she continued to work in the food and beverage industry, sort of at a management level for years. So she had a lot of experience running that sort of a business. So from sort of a marketing standpoint and, you know, bookkeeping and management standpoint, she had a lot of experience in that. I didn't I had no experience whatsoever with entrepreneurship before setting sail on this journey. But then in addition to that, while my mom was travelling as an RVer, sort of before we started this, she had launched a series of travel guides that she created a, you know, a website and marketed herself and had done quite well with she had a really significant following of fellow our viewers who were looking for affordable camping options for them while travelling, you know, North America. So that was a real huge advantage for us when we started not only her business expertise, but this audience that she brought with her.

Jason Knight  10:50  
This is almost like having an influencer helping you set up the business. So this is a completely different deal. This isn't just your mum, this is a famous, RVer, that's there as the figurehead of your business, is it something like that?

Anna Maste  11:02  
Pretty much she she had been profiled in the New York Times and in sort of their their frugal Travel section, she you know, she tells stories about going camping and people running into her and saying, Oh, well, you Marianne wrote those guides. So yeah, she she really, in her niche was definitely sort of a recognised name and face.

Jason Knight  11:22  
As we all hope to be in our respective niches. But when it came to scaling the business, you've talked about the importance of community. Now, you're involved in community theatre, as we discussed, you're involved in a bunch of local community initiatives. So you're well aware of the general benefits of a group of like minded people with common interests coming together around a thing. So what's the RV enthusiasts community like, and how enthusiastic were they, when you, yourself kind of followed your mom into it and started trying to get involved with that?

Anna Maste  11:55  
So my mother sort of knew that this would be something that the RV community would embrace. And she obviously had spent quite some time in that community and I did not I, prior to starting this, I had never spent the night in an RV, I do now own one. So I kind of had to take her word for it, that this was something that would be appreciated. And we were somewhat naive, we didn't really like do the whole customer research one should do. But it turned out that she she did know what she was talking about it. And you know, in in the RV community, there was already a pattern of people would meet, share a beverage around a campfire, and then you know, trade addresses and say, "Hey, if you're ever in my neck of the woods come park in my driveway", this was a very common practice. And there were, in fact, you know, each RV manufacturer would sometimes have like a guide of other, you know, if you're an Airstream owner, here's a guide of other Airstream owners and their phone numbers and approximately where they live, and you can call them up and they'll let you come stay on their, on their property. And it was a very sort of ad hoc offline version of what we ended up creating. So there was definitely some precedent that this community could support and wanted to support this sort of extension into the digital world.

Jason Knight  13:14  
Well, I was gonna say, actually, around the concept of digital worlds, and being digitally enabled in general, like, we're talking about people that at least for part of their time, spend their time off grid effectively, like, not hooked up to anything, as you say. And that suppose is that they've they've got some kind of mobile internet, which maybe they've been a bit trickier back then. And maybe it's tricky in some of the locations that they'd be parking, or that they just wouldn't have anything. So did that make it harder in any way to like, offer services? That was obviously they could book stuff when they're at home? In a nice, comfortable room? But like, were there any services that you had to try to deliver whilst they were out and about? Or did you just kind of leave them at the doorway and they went off and did whatever they did?

Anna Maste  13:59  
I think that when we first started in 2012, there was definitely not as much connectivity as there is now people didn't, you know, have their little Wi Fi hotspots that they carried with them everywhere. It's like you might have a cell phone with some data coverage, but it wasn't nearly as readily available as it is now. So I feel like we really actually grew with that technology. It really sort of helped us that we grew slowly but in step with that, but yeah, that definitely does factor in you know, sometimes people will be off grid without any reception, depending on where you are for days at a time. And we you know, eventually introduced the ability to send messages via SMS because sometimes SMS would have coverage, whereas data wouldn't and those were things that we sort of slowly had to add on. Because yeah, they weren't necessary to support people who are geographically remote.

Jason Knight  14:52  
Yeah, that's really interesting. And I guess the follow up question from that is like whether there were any surprising use cases that you were able to support as that explosion of mobile internet happened and as all these different use cases potentially became more feasible, because of course, everyone's got 4/5/6/7/8G, whatever it is that we're on now. I mean, I'm sure not everyone, there's going to be dead spots somewhere. But like, did it enable any cool use cases? Way down the line maybe later in the journey for the journey of the company? Or did you kind of stick to, for want of a better word, the basics and just tried to make those better?

Anna Maste  15:27  
I think we mostly stuck to the basics. I think we did eventually get to the point where a mobile app was really necessary. At the beginning, we were able to sort of get by with just a website and or at least a mobile friendly website, then yeah, we, shortly before we were acquired, actually, I finally sat down. And because I am the Dev, I learned React Native and Rohde wrote a mobile app, my very first mobile app. Turned out okay, so that, you know, that was, again, it was a case of us growing with the product and the market.

Jason Knight  15:59  
Talking about markets, were you primarily focused in on Canada, where you live? Or when you've talked about South us, for example, as well, like, so? Was it Canada plus the US? Or did you go even wider than that? Like, how grand did your ambitions get before you exited?

Anna Maste  16:17  
So we, shortly before we exited, we had about 2800, hosts, almost all in North America, although there were a smattering in Europe and Australia, most of those were people who had travelled in the North America on vacation, and then gone home and sort of just offered a spot, sort of reciprocal, some of them did get some guests. So but yeah, most of them in North America, the vast majority, it was about 25%, Canada and 75% of our hosts in the US. So not too bad a distribution, and then probably about 90% of our members were actually based in the US. So most Canadians, if they're RVing, are heading down south anyway.

Jason Knight  17:02  
Yeah, don't go north, it's cold up there. But I will say that community building and community engagement, it does sound like a bit of a long game. So you've got to, obviously, as you did kind of get involved in that community, build some credibility in that community, you've got to engage that community build awareness of what you're doing for that community, start to build advocacy and fans within that community. And then you've got to kind of keep that going. Because if you don't use it, you're gonna probably lose it. Now, I know that you and your mom didn't take funding, like you bootstrap this all yourself, and you kind of took it yourself from zero to sold, do you think that you would have been able to play that long community driven game, if you were VC backed and had this intense pressure to deliver super growth, super growth, super growth?

Anna Maste  17:44  
for us for the business model that we chose? I mean, firstly, VCs weren't interested.

Jason Knight  17:54  
They couldn't see the bigger picture!

Anna Maste  17:56  
True. That changed once the pandemic came around, and sort of RVing took off and other you know, investment opportunities dried up a bit. But when we were sort of really starting to double down and work harder on the business, we actually went through like a small accelerator here in town, and you know, there was like a speed dating with investors, opportunity, and none of them were interested, which was fine. It wasn't really our goal with going through that that accelerator, we weren't really interested in raising funding. But part of that was our business model was, you know, because we worked on a membership model, right. So I mentioned our hosts don't take any payment, but the guests essentially pay an annual membership to us in order to have access to our hosts. So that model means that, you know, the lifetime value of our individual members was not really all that high. And the VCs weren't particularly interested in that model. But in addition to that, because our hosts weren't earning anything, there was always for us a real emphasis on making sure that we didn't grow too fast, right? If you're trying to push the guest side up too high without necessarily keeping our hosts at that same ratio, then we were always worried that the whole thing was just going to topple over, we would have hosts who would feel overwhelmed. And yeah, certainly, as we grew more popular areas, like if you were a host in Florida, in the winter, you would probably be overwhelmed with requests. We did have a lot of hosts there. So it was good. But sometimes it felt like we had some who were busy every night of the year, and some of them wanted to be and that was fine. But it was always important to us to make sure that we scaled it sort of in a way that kept our hosts happy. Because at the end of the day, it was their generosity that allowed us to grow this business.

Jason Knight  19:45  
Now, some of those VCs, maybe some of the more tiresome types might sit there and dismiss you as a kind of a lifestyle business because you're not going for that kind of hockey stick growth and all the funding and shooting for the moon. Do you think that these people are? I mean, you didn't have a great experience trying to persuade them? This was a good idea. But do you think these people are wrong about that sort of thing?

Anna Maste  20:08  
I guess, for me, the question is always, what's the ultimate end goal? Right? If the end goal is to try and grow your capital as fast as possible, then yeah, okay. Obviously, hockey stick growth is the point, if the goal is to grow a business into something that is profitable, and can provide value than the hockey stick growth is really, the only real need for growth is to make sure that you're not stagnating, and that nobody's going to come out and rip the carpet out from under you.

Jason Knight  20:41  
Yeah, and also making a bunch of white middle class dudes quite rich as well, I guess is, was a bonus for them as well. It's about time they got a break. But you did get acquired at some point fairly recently. I can't remember exactly when. But I guess one thing that could happen in a situation like that when you're getting acquired, and when you do have that big community backing, and you've been quite embedded with that community, and probably made a lot of friends in that community, they could maybe sit there and quite angrily think that you've sold out the trade them or something along those lines, because you've taken a bunch of money to businesses and yours anymore. Maybe don't even trust that the new owners are going to be the community minded people that you are now I'm not making any judgments on your new owners. But that could be something that the community thinks, so did you have like a lot of reassuring to do or a lot of PR to do? Or will they kind of behind you when you announced this?

Anna Maste  21:34  
So we were approached by our acquirers we hadn't gone out seeking acquires we hadn't looked necessarily to sell. And part of the reason that we decided to go ahead was because the acquiring company was another company in the space that our community was already really familiar with, that our acquires are called Harvest hosts, they have a very similar business model they offer overnight camping at alternative locations, these their locations are businesses like wineries and breweries and museums. And they also work on while similar membership model, right, it's an annual membership, and half of our guests members were already also members of theirs. So I think if we had been approached to be acquired by any other company, it would have been a very different decision and a very different approach we would have had to take and we would have had to think a lot harder about it. But because we were approached by harvest hosts, and they were such a good fit. And we had, you know, our own reasons for thinking that maybe it was time to move on. My mother is if I'm 45. She's definitely older than that. So she was she was ready to move on and sort of be retired. So that was, I think, a really easy part of that whole thing is, is knowing that we were selling to a company that our community already embraced. And would, we had a great deal of trust that they would maintain the integrity of that community because of that.

Jason Knight  23:07  
Well, we'll watch this space, but I'm sure they will. No hate mail in the post, coming from these far flung places so far?

Anna Maste  23:14  
No, and they they did an amazing job of working sort of, I stayed on for six months after the the acquisition as a transition. And we worked together to sort of craft the messaging to make sure that all of our community members really felt comfortable and that they knew that the new owners were going to maintain sort of the same integrity that we had.

Jason Knight  23:34  
But now you have exited, and you've taken that money, and you've gone and started a new thing. Now I know that you're currently in landing page mode, and you're getting ready to launch but the thing that you're about to launch is called I believe, subscribe sense, which is more of a marketing technology type thing. So a bit of a shift away from those RVs and that all stoves and stuff that they heat their beans on. So it's not quite the same audience. Not at all the same use case. But was there a particular problem that you maybe identified during your time at the previous company, or that had kind of come up in passing when you're talking to all those other entrepreneurs that you probably had to speak to? Was that something that you then identified a problem there and then decided to go and build a company to do that? Or was there some other reason that you decided to go into that direction?

Anna Maste  24:22  
No, it was exactly that was the age old start a company and then you'll figure out a problem that you want to start another company to solve? So with boondockers welcome, we had a pretty, you know, long sales funnel, lots of people would discover our products but not be ready to buy. So we had your pretty typical sign up for our newsletter pop up on the homepage, and we had a pretty popular newsletter. We sent out a newsletter every week. That was really just a list of the most recent hosts who had signed up and people would open it scan through and say oh, then some of the hosts were amazing and they all had photos and It was it was really It sold itself. It was a it was an amazing marketing tool. But one of the things that I discovered quite late in the process really was that we had a double opt in newsletter, you had to confirm your email after submitting it on our homepage. And one of the things I discovered was that only about 60% of the people who actually put their email address into that first form, completed that double opt in step. And I know especially I mean, given our demographic, we're not talking necessarily about the most technically savvy people, they're not necessarily going to be checking their spam folder or knowing exactly where to look to try and find those emails. So subscribe sense essentially tries to reduce that friction and help increase that confirmation rate for double opt in newsletters.

Jason Knight  25:48  
Sounds like a very useful service. But the marketing community is out there as well, like it's something that does exist, it's all over Twitter and all over LinkedIn, and all of these marketing conferences, I keep seeing advertised. So have you kind of gone down as community approach again, and you're trying to engage on a community level with the marketing people that you've reached out to? Or are you kind of taking a different tack and a different route to market this time?

Anna Maste  26:13  
I'm working my way in that direction. Similar to the RVing community, I didn't have a footprint in the RVing community, whereas my mother did. But this time, I'm a solo founder. And I haven't really been much in the marketing community before now. So I'm slowly starting to integrate my way in there. But but I've found a few different communities that I've started participating in. Cory Haines has a great swipe files community that I have become a member of and have been participating in. And I'm really enjoying that. And he's one of the people who actually, I had some great conversations with him, as I was trying to determine, you know, whether or not this product really had legs. And that's been a really great purchase great way for me to validate my ideas, and getting into the Reddit communities. There's lots of them there. So I am definitely trying to continue to use community to help move this forward. But it's going to be a little bit of a different game for sure.

Jason Knight  27:13  
Yeah, I was gonna say like, are there any things that you're doing differently this time from the off, like, based on your previous experience, things that maybe didn't work out first time and you've decided to skip those this time? Or is everything so different, that you're kind of having to work out what works as you go in this new ballgame?

Anna Maste  27:31  
It's very different. B2C marketplace is essentially what we built, not a bootstrapped, B2C marketplace is a very difficult beast, and not one that I would ever recommend anybody try. And it was only out of naivety, that we really attempted it in the first place. So now I'm looking at B2B SaaS, which is, I mean, there'll be some crossover, but a lot of it is new. Luckily, I have a lot more resources and just knowledge sort of at that space. So I don't feel like I'm starting from total scratch.

Jason Knight  28:02  
You've got the RV money under your bed now that you say you can spend some of that on, had no advertising campaigns or something.

Anna Maste  28:09  
It's true! It's, it's.. I mean, I don't plan to pour a whole lot of my personal money into it. But whereas, you know, we literally spent almost nothing on Boondockers Welcome at the beginning until we were making money. Yeah, you know, I have a little more luxury this time around.

Jason Knight  28:24  
There you go. I'm looking forward to the Superbowl ad sometime soon. But what's one piece of advice you'd give to someone then who was maybe trying to start their own company up either as a technical founder or whatever their background, someone that's maybe taking those first steps? And maybe they've identified a community, either that they're in or that they've seen? And they want to be? Like, what advice would you give that person that founder to try and really help make a good, I guess, impression and the best use of that community to help them to scale that business to the level that I needed to?

Anna Maste  28:57  
I mean, I think the answer always comes down to providing value and providing customer service that that is beyond reproach. I think that was the two the two aspects of Boondockers Welcome that really helped us grow was just word of mouth because of the value and the support that we gave. And that certainly translates to any business, B2B, B2C, it doesn't matter as long as you are providing value and answering customer requests and participating with your customers, not just telling them what they need, but listening to them. As long as you're, as long as you're doing that you're you're going to be able to build a community that is excited about what you've got. And that's really I think, the best thing that you that we had at Boondockers Welcome was, you know, a group of fans that were willing to praise us from the rooftops from the RV tops.

Jason Knight  29:55  
Yeah, not sure how safe it is to get up there, but...

Anna Maste  29:56  
You know, they're usually flat at least, you're less likely to fall off.

Jason Knight  29:59  
They've got all those like sunroofs and like knobbles and vents and stuff on.

Anna Maste  30:04  
A lot of them do. Some of them are big enough, though that you could go up there and like bring your chair and open it up and have a nice little Sunday.

Jason Knight  30:11  
Play a game of hockey on the roof or something. And going back to then the concept of boondockers there's apparently a saying and I say apparently because I just saw it when I looked it up, "pack it in, pack it out", which seems to me to be kind of almost like a "leave the campsite as you found it" type analogy. Is there an analogy that we can take from that like bearing in mind that as product people, we're supposed to kind of make a tiresome business analogy of everything? Is there any kind of analogies to the packet in packet out any kind of equivalent in startup land?

Anna Maste  30:45  
I don't know. I think most of us if we're building products and businesses, our goal is to leave a mark as opposed to leave nothing but footprints take. I think one analogy though, would be sort of just the the circle of life of nature and that I tried to bring that into my participation in sort of the the founder community, you know, now that I've had a successful exit, I'm trying to make sure to support other people who are sort of coming up and having those same questions. And I think that circle of life is something that that is important and can continue to be brought forth.

Jason Knight  31:24  
So we'll be looking for the next Canadian Simba to be held aloft with us supporting them and the Canadian startup community. 

Anna Maste  31:32  
Exactly. 

Jason Knight  31:33  
Hope you've got someone in mind... I'll invest in them later. And where can people find you after this if they want to find out more about subscribe since find out about your release, or maybe talk about community building of ease or get a ticket to you next theatre performance?

Anna Maste  31:47  
So you can find SubscribeSense.com. You can sign up for our beta which we'll be launching soon. And if you want to just connect with me to talk about all things startups, I am easily found on Twitter at @skulegirl, which is spelt S-K-U-L-E-girl, which we call the metric spelling.

Jason Knight  32:09  
I like that. All right, well, I'll link that into the show notes. And hopefully you'll get a few people come across and try and find out a little bit more. Well, that's been a fantastic chat. And obviously it's really great to hear your story and some of the lessons that others can learn from your experience in building a company and community engagement. Obviously we'll stay in touch but yeah has for now. Thanks for taking the time. 

Anna Maste  32:30  
Thanks for having me, Jason. 

Jason Knight  32:34  
As always, thanks for listening. I hope you found the episode inspiring and insightful. If you did again, I can only encourage you to hop over to oneknightinproduct.com, check out some of my other fantastic guests sign up to the mailing list or subscribe on your favourite podcast app and make sure you share your friends so you and they can never miss another episode again. I'll be back soon with another inspiring guest but as for now, thanks and good night,